Default Setting

25 posts / 0 new

Last post

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 22:45

RPGRealms

Offline

Joined: 02/16/2011

Default Setting

So while we work on the T20->SciFi20 conversion, we should give some thought to a default campaign setting. My initial thought is, because I already own the rights to the material, rework the original Judges Guild Gateway Quadrant into a non-Traveller setting. It shouldn't be too hard at all, lets face it, the old JG material was pretty sparse on setting to begin with beyond UPP stats, and the adventures such as they were had little to do with the Traveller Imperium.

Basically what this gives us is a preset region of stars and statistics as well as some supporting adventures and materials we can build our setting around. What exactly that setting should be is the matter at hand.

Yes, this is me soliciting some input. I see you reading this... :p

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 02:14

Teak

Offline

Joined: 03/17/2011

I'm a little late but as

I'm a little late but as y'all are feeling your way through the fabric of the milieu I can muse on the storytelling aspects. SHould be said that i have no familiarity with the JG stuff.

Assuming you want more than a star atlas with resource and climate info and travel times (which might all that's needed for a 'starter milieu'):

What genre(s) will be represented? Both cybertech and planetary romance are relatively easy to integrate into either space opera or hard/speculative fiction but a potential GM has to modify heavily to fit a Star Wars episode in with Space Marines. Will psi or other science fantasy mutations be available.

To Bruce's point, are their aliens and if so is this pre-first contact or some point after? And what about disparity in Tech Levels? For any particular society you'd have a 'standard tech' and a 'theorietical tech'; I'd say that no cluster of societies would differ by more than 2 tech levels at most, unless the higher level was contingent upon some scarce resource (i.e. dilithioum crystals).

The wormhole concept settles a lot of potential problems but how does it work? Is it a natural phenomenon building on current theorietical physics or engineering from some ancients? is it limited to stellar travel/communication or can it be the basis of other tech, practical or theoretical?

if earth-centric how has society developed? have we been able to make the move to space exploration because of the rise of mega-corporations/private enterprise or because we've moved to a single world government (Alien or of Star Trek?). Is there competition among the various agents or are we more or less unified and able to concentrate on external forces?

And finally, aside from the human drive to just go somewhere no one has been before what is the possible motivations for a scenario? science, war, resource gathering or some more complex dynamic like the universe of firefly where things are more or less settled (and static) but characters are just trying to get by?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 04:07

(Reply to #15) #3

codemonkey

Offline

Joined: 02/17/2011

Setting

I'm toying with two concepts for setting right now.

The first being a near-future, earth based setting, but those kinds of settings quickly get overtaken by real history. I look at my Blue Planet stuff. While still a great setting, it's become "alternate-history" as opposed to "possible future history". Not necessarily a bad thing in all cases, but it can be an issue. Hell look at Traveller, it's how old now? Not that I have any illusions of that kind of prolonged success (though one always hopes).

The other, and don't cringe before you hear me out, is more akin to the old style of D&D setting. Lots of wilderness to explore, the ruins of a galactic empire to discover and salvage from, opportunities to strike out on the group's own, a chance to impact the setting itself, etc. And yes a bit of high tech dungeon crawling. This setting is more akin to the TNE setting. The initial setting is a single world just hitting TL10 and rediscovering the jump drive (or whatever). The problem is, a world war is raging and none of the belligerants can really afford to built fleets of starships when fighting for their lives already. So letters of Marque are issued to the nobles that can afford to fund the construction and supplies the crews for their ships. The nobles share a healthy percentage with the government for any useful equipment, technology or data they can find.

Plenty of room for the standard Traveller-esque staples such as corporate espionage, merc-tickets, trade and commerce, etc.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 09:24

Bruce

Offline

Joined: 02/25/2011

Looks around nervously

I guess a default setting would have to start with some basic questions.

1. Is there FTL communication?

2. Is there FTL travel?

3. Is the default setting a mature universe? I.e. is it an empire or is it the start or exploration?

4. Are aliens real? And if they are, has any alien met any alien?

5. Is "man" or "humans" the default base for said question 3?

Just some basic questions. This all lead to more complex questions after these are answered.

Bruce

The Man Behind the Curtain

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 13:47

(Reply to #2) #5

RPGRealms

Offline

Joined: 02/16/2011

Basic Assumptions

FTL communication I'd probably say no.

FTL travel definite yes.

Personally I'd probably prefer a less mature interstellar society. One that is still very early in its expansion.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 13:59

(Reply to #3) #6

Bruce

Offline

Joined: 02/25/2011

more questions

Well no FTL communications means communication lag and communication is only as fast as messages can be carried physically by ship.

FTL travel by starship is an interesting question.

1. What type of FTL travel is it?

A. Do they have artificial gravity?

With no artificial gravity ships will be designed with ways to produce gravity on board, spinning wheels or ships spinning along their axis.

With artificial gravity, then you don't have to worry so much.

Of course, there is a good amount of handwavium going on.

A concept. What if humans are humans, but not from Terra.

Does it have to be a SOL centered universe?

Bruce

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:41

(Reply to #4) #7

RPGRealms

Offline

Joined: 02/16/2011

FTL Travel

Personally I like the idea of FTL via a wormhole network for a variety of reasons, but mostly because it makes it a lot easier to "plug and play" new worlds and areas. Unfortunately that doesn't work well with using the old JG sectors. Then again that isn't a necessary requirement. We can still adapt the adventures and other materials.

I've considered the humans but not from Terra idea. But are they aware of their heritage or has it been so long that it is all myth?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:08

(Reply to #5) #8

DavidS

Offline

Joined: 04/03/2011

Wormholes

That would depend on how common wormholes are and how they work. If we draw lines from one JG system to all others within range, and travel can only go along those lines, then we have 1) a 2D mapable grid (we hope), and 2) Traveller sectors can be easily converted to the new mapping system. With a wormhole map, we don't have to pay much (any?) attention to RealSpace constraints, only what links to what and how long it takes to traverse that particular 'tube'. Think London Underground maps. :)

velShandru

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:11

(Reply to #6) #9

DavidS

Offline

Joined: 04/03/2011

Wormhole Mapping

IMTU <g>, I use a 3D mapping system in which alternate layers sit on the 'points' of the hexes so we can count our hexes easily. Where I have worlds on a hex point I typically displace it to one of its adjacent hexes and show where it belongs with a small arrow. Crude, but it works in the sparsely populated areas I'm mapping. Kinda rules out goign very far core-ward though <chuckle>.

I'm thinking something vaguely similar for our wormhole pre-maps. The actual location of the system can be calculated on a 3D map (my kludge or the real thing) and then generate a "stations" map akin to Bruce's showing the various worlds neatly laid out without particular reference to their physical location -- it's the transit time which is critical in this sort of map. If we convert Traveller subsectors as taking 1 week / hex then we can approximate transit times.

Question is, do different engines transit a given wormhole in such-and-such a time, or is there only one type of engine (sufficient or not going anywhere) and the J-equivalency a property of the wormhole itself. Is a ship J-1 or J-3 or does the wormhole pass all traffic at the same rate. And does that rate vary from wormhole to wormhole. The handwavium is lots easier if we posit the first case rather than the second. :)

velShandru

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:07

(Reply to #10) #10

codemonkey

Offline

Joined: 02/17/2011

Wormhole Mapping

I've honestly not given any though to how Jump equivalents would cross over. My working concept is that there aren't any FTL drives, only maneuver drives (or their equivalent). The wormholes themselves act as the "engine". Much of the inspiration and line of though on how the wormholes might work is based on the books by Weber and White such as the Shiva Option.

As to the length of travel time through a wormhole, one idea I've toyed with is the idea that it varies with each wormhole. Make for some interesting situations, but it could be a nightmare for a referee.

ith that said, now that we might have a way to adapt the current starmapping system in T20/SciFi20, I may have to revise some of my thinking.

With Jump drives, perhaps they act more as a keyhole drive in that they provide the power to open or activate the wormhole. So wormholes are rated by the distance they cover (J1, J2, J3, etc) and require a drive of sufficient power to pass through.

This is going to make wormholes very frequent and very short, whereas with a grid system the distance covered by the wormhole is effectively irrelevent in the scope of game play.

I would like to see an example of how you are doing your 3d maps as you mentioned.

Sun, 04/24/2011 - 02:00

(Reply to #11) #11

DavidS

Offline

Joined: 04/03/2011

3D Mapping

Sorry for the extensinve delay in replying to your request for a sample; I ran into a headache trying to remember which laptop has my Traveller Universe installed on it so I could do a pretty version of this for you.

In the end came up with this rather clearer 3D Subsector map, since TU maps old-style and a simple screenie of one of my 3D subsectors wouldn't be terribly informative. Please note that all of the red hexes (odd numbered elevations) are to the right of their blue (even numbers, plus 0) counterparts and bear the same hex number. I record elevations after the world name as a positive or negative value, e.g. Thrush +3, or Tefsi +2.

Only as I drew this did I catch a mapping anomoly this system of mine has introduced which isn't in the original suggestion of every 'corner' of a hex holding another hex both above and below it. I'll have to go back to my drawing board to try to fix that. Meanwhile, I leave sussing it out as an exercise to the mapper <evil grin>.

This was working out so well for me too <lol>. I'll let you know once I've got an actual 3D hex map.

velShandru

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 03:28

(Reply to #11) #12

DavidS

Offline

Joined: 04/03/2011

Wormhole Tech

If we're going to stay true to Starfire, we'd be looking at a keyhole drive for accessing the wormhole which then chucks us out at its terminus in the predicted transit time, unique to that wormhole. How we'd choose to classify the wormholes, whether by length or comparable jump number is up to us I guess.

velShandru

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 10:22

(Reply to #12) #13

DavidS

Offline

Joined: 04/03/2011

Fair enough but pointing to

Fair enough but pointing to the rules behind the books, we're still looking at a keyhole rather than a true FTL drive, which simplifies things. :)

Providing one drive for all (it works for your volume/mass or it doesn't) and having the wormholes transit mass/voume at different rates -- with or without Weber's Honorverse constraint of large mass/volumes destabilizing the wormhole for a bit -- keeps the tech tree simpler. Higher tech may make for more efficient, i.e. smaller. engines, but doesn't let a given ship transit a given wormhole any faster. I can live with that.

velShandru

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 22:42

(Reply to #12) #14

RPGRealms

Offline

Joined: 02/16/2011

Starfire

We don't have to stay true to anything, those books are just what my initial ideas were springing from. Most particularly the idea I like is the closed wormhole termini idea.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:23

(Reply to #6) #15

RPGRealms

Offline

Joined: 02/16/2011

Adapting Sector Maps

Hmm, yeah that might be workable. I'll have to print out some blank subsector maps and play around with it. At the moment I've just been working via graph paper for the wormhole layouts between star systems.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:15

(Reply to #6) #16

Bruce

Offline

Joined: 02/25/2011

Wormholes 2

I like the idea of a map with just a space inbetween each system that just has a transit time number.

So the question is, is a real looking flat 2d map more artistically pleasing to the viewer than just say a GRID.

Something like this.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:25

(Reply to #7) #17

RPGRealms

Offline

Joined: 02/16/2011

Bruce's Map

That's basically the kind of layout on graph paper I've been using. I think the hex maps would tend to be more appealing visually if we can make them work well.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 09:58

(Reply to #9) #18

Bruce

Offline

Joined: 02/25/2011

Hex paper

I think your right, hex paper could be more visually exciting.

I think your right, that does look better and has more variety.

Bruce

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 10:15

(Reply to #14) #19

DavidS

Offline

Joined: 04/03/2011

So I see <smile>. It also

So I see <smile>. It also hints at the possibility of any given star system having 0-5 exiting wormholes, other than the wormhole one arrived within. Tricky if that one is one-way. <evil umpirial grin>

velShandru

Sat, 04/09/2011 - 22:58

(Reply to #17) #20

Bruce

Offline

Joined: 02/25/2011

wormy holes map

i was also looking at the idea of a 3d hexogonal map. But man, that would be a nightmare.

I also thought about a bucky-ball map model. You can flatten a bucky ball out and see it's pattern. But it's not a constant hexagonal grid.

It's a definate brain bender to try and consider it in x,y and z axis.

I think to do a 3d map it would be easier to have it 2d on a grid and then just label if something is above the accepted plain of the elliptic.

But your right, the flat hex map could be fun.

Mon, 04/11/2011 - 22:10

(Reply to #19) #21

RPGRealms

Offline

Joined: 02/16/2011

3d Maps

Eh, honestly I don't see the point of 3d maps from a role-playing perspective. The maps are a metagame tool and I think are best when they are easy to use.

If we were to use a 3d system I'd be more likely to support adopting a 2d grid with a +/- value representing the Z axis.

Sun, 04/24/2011 - 07:03

(Reply to #20) #22

Shadowdragon

Offline

Joined: 04/24/2011

3d / 2d - I'm the one with the maps

I think at this point worrying about the type of mapping you will use is almost putting the cart ahead of the horse. You have to know what form of FTL you will be using at the least. You also need to decide, are you going to push this game system towards pen and paper gaming, or computer assisted gaming? If the former then simple maps are the best, but if the latter, you can do some amazing maps with some of the software out there already.

Personally, I like x,y,z maps. I can live with the type of "map" used in "The Shiva Option" book, especially if the x,y,z is available as well. Where do you think would be the best for the 0,0,0 reference?

Shadowdragon

Zoe: Preacher, don't the bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?

Book: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps....

Sun, 04/24/2011 - 16:40

(Reply to #22) #23

RPGRealms

Offline

Joined: 02/16/2011

Cart Before the Horse

Valid point, but this I think is more of an exercise in possibilities.

Also, SciFi20 is going to have various different types of FTL travel available as options, so this kind of discussion is a good idea I think to toss around possible ways of handling things with regard to wormhole FTL travel.

With regard to X,Y, Z core reference with star mapping, I'd either go with it centered on Earth or whatever the capitol will be or on galactic center. I'd tend to go with Earth or the capitol as those would be the most useful reference in terms of gaming.

BTW Shadowdragon, you have full access to the SciFi20 group now.

Sun, 04/24/2011 - 20:13

(Reply to #23) #24

Shadowdragon

Offline

Joined: 04/24/2011

Astrosynthesis 2 (soon to be 3)

If anyone is interested, I have an Astro2 sector file with Earth centered at 0,0,0 and the stars out to a 500ly radius mapped in place. They dont have the details filled in, and Astro2 has a few small issues, for example binary and trinary systems are located at a single point rather than each star having its own location (something to do with orbital mechanics and the program structure) but it is a wonderful mapping program, and when printing it does 2d with +/- either x,y, or z as you choose. Somewhere I also have the formulas to switch from Earth being 0,0,0 to galactic center being 0,0,0 - accurate to a couple years ago. And, with ease, Astro2 can do 2d starmaps by simply setting z to zero across the board. Which reminds me, I also found someone who figured out the formulas to build Astro2 sectors with the coordinates for "hex" positioning- I can try to dig that up as well.

One thing I haven't seen much in any game is for each race to have slightly different tech trees and techniques- for instance, one of the races I am working on for my sci-fi game has basically the exact same Traveller technologies as they are listed in the books, but all their equipment is based on a crystal matrix, with the handwave being "crystalline circuits" being created with special "forges" and psi masters- a variation of the Sohon techniques used with nanites in the Legacy of the Aldenata series. It really makes the setting a bit more realistic to me when separate peoples discovers how the universe works in different ways. A tad more complicated I grant you, but very satisfying. With the benefit that players can't always just drop that alien tech into a slot and make it work. Mean of me, but thats my job...

Thanks for approving me- I hope some of my suggestions are helpful to the game.

Zoe: Preacher, don't the bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?

Book: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps....

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 01:33

(Reply to #24) #25

RPGRealms

Offline

Joined: 02/16/2011

Subject Change

I broke this off into its own topic in the forum.